filled and fooled

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My Truths #1

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MT #1:  In reality I’m not that comfortable with my husband pursuing, being pursued by, or generally being with another woman.

I know I threw out the compersion term a time or two, and I get why people feel that way (and I do in certain situations).  I want to see him happy,  I want to sacrifice to do that if I have to, and I want him to feel the chance to explore with new people like I do.  But to give in and let him explore, without regret or ill feelings (to feel compersive), far too many conditions must be met to give him any real opportunities;  therefore I am not comfortable with him being with another woman.

And that makes me feel bad.

Which leads to some advice I would like to offer:

Don’t try to tease a {new} friend with the chance to bed your husband unless you’re willing to let them go through with it.

Once you throw the idea out there and she gets intrigued or accepts, there is a good chance deep (or maybe not so deep) down you will resent her for actually wanting it.  And if it doesn’t happen she is going to feel rejected and manipulated and resent you for feeling that way.

That whole situation was a real mess, I’m sure you saw that coming.  Too messy to blog about even.  Chapter closed.

54 thoughts on “My Truths #1

  1. Is there a reason(or reasons) why you are not comfortable with him being with another woman?
    I still have my own apprehensions about Henri sleeping with another woman (which he hasn’t yet) so I’m just curious. xxx

    • My fears are irrational, he is going nowhere and I am secure in his love and devotion to me. But, the thought of him chatting with a girl, flirting, getting to know what she likes, it just makes my stomach flip.

      If I had more of an affection for women, I know I have love for everyone, but a desire to explore another woman is low, I would like to have a threesome where we both work together to pleasure him. I would be in control and I might be okay with it.

      Or I think that if I had a playmate to keep me occupied (such as her husband or bf or my own theoretical FWB) during the time my husband is interacting with her, I might be okay with it.

      All these ‘might be okay with it’s’ don’t feel as good as saying, “I think I just don’t like the feeling.”

      Is it the same as saying, “I really like seeing you suck another guy’s dick.” as he or I might say after a threesome with a guy friend? Just preferences? Likes and dislikes?

      I still don’t really feel entitled to say that considering he has demonstrated it isn’t all that bad letting your partner enjoy a different person….

      • Well my truth on this same subject is that I feel like I’ve been a bitch to Henri and that maybe a better woman is going to come around and swoop him away. Of course, like you mentioned, the fear is irrational, but it’s there nonetheless. Still, I am willing to let him do it anyway, mostly because I don’t find that I should have these feelings if he hasn’t even fucked anyone yet. He has spoken to women and got close to fucking one, and I got over that. Plus, I also feel guilty having already done it (many times) and him none. And last but not least, since I have done it and he gave me the benefit of doubt, trusting that I can have sex with other men and still uphold our marriage, I feel like I should do the same.
        This sexual adventure in your marriage is still something you’re navigating, so don’t feel bad about having these feelings and putting it out here. You’re not the only couple to come to this bump (?) in the road. xxx

        • Thank you Scarlett! I think we are on the same wavelength here, and I’m glad I can put my feelings out here, though now I feel like I’m beating a dead horse. I guess this is just how I need to process. Opening a marriage is a much bigger thing than I like to accept at times. xoxoxo I keep meaning to comment on your posts but its making me log in again and by the time I’ve done the math the idea has slipped away or someone is crying. I love you girl.

  2. Your raw honesty is one of the reasons I always come back to your blog (even if I don’t comment much–I know, I know, bad blogger [I’ll take a slap on the wrist or elsewhere for it!]).

    This is one of the reasons why I could never do swinging, polyamory, open relationships (though I have rode down this road before), triads, sharing, etc. However, being single and having a threesome with a well-established and well-balanced couple (more balanced than me, anyway) has always been something I enjoyed.

    In the end, even if I’m getting mine… the idea of another woman being with my s/o or lover makes my blood boil. Especially with my current “relationship.” The amount of emails/tumblr questions I get about Sir being available to Top another woman–they’re just emails but I burn about it for days! Irrational and selfish too maybe, but we all have our reasons.

    And they’re usually very good reasons.

    You’re wonderful.

    xoxo

    • Thank you so much for saying this, it always feels good to know I’m not the only one that fears the reasons we do certain things or feel certain ways might be irrational and selfish, but to own it may be the lesson here.

      I want to make him happy, but at the expense of my own happiness? What level of sacrifice must I make in the name of love?

      You are absolutely wonderful, and I have enjoyed your presence here again immensely. xoxoxo!!!

  3. Oops – yeah, this could get really messy and I even know how it could – enough said. I do admit to being surprised by this, though…

    • First problem is that I didn’t really enjoy her company much to begin with, so I tried to avoid her instead of discussing my less-than comfort level. Plus, I thought I was still going to fall in love with the idea because for all intents and purposes, it seemed like the best option we had to get him a tally on that second woman list, and to get her laid.
      I would have gone with it, but I had to have my conditions met, and they both grew tired of waiting for that to happen.
      Then shit got even weirder because she is a facebook drama queen. Not exposing us as swingers weird, but just realizing she had invested way more energy into our “relationship” than I had weird.

      • Please don’t be too angry with me but if this was about your hubby getting that second tally, why was it dependent upon your conditions? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to… but it makes me wonder if your reasoning is consistent with other such situations I’ve heard of.

        • I guess it comes down to whether we should have a tally or list, or keep track. That tends to be his argument, this “steady stream of men” and few women we’ve been with. The tally system is invalid because we can’t give a point value to the bi acts he’s done (with me present mostly, but not always) or the fact that he does get off watching me perform, or getting off with another man.
          So my argument is, I don’t think he is owed an alone experience with another woman, because I haven’t had an alone experience (ten points, lol). He doesn’t deserve an alone experience simply because that is the easiest to find. So my conditions are really rooted in what makes me feel comfortable while he is doing something I don’t necessarily agree he “deserves”.
          Now having a FMF is something I’d totally do for him. But I’m not driven to find another girl to do it. Again, I’m putting up a roadblock by not actively seeking it, because as we discussed I’m not comfortable with him seeking it.

          • Thanks for answering, G. It reminds me of the ‘argument’ my [then] wife and I had about this and before I even heard of “we play together or not at all.”

            • Let me ask you this, as a husband (or then-husband), what made you feel like it would be good for you or the relationship to play separately? I’ve admitted in a future post and probably many past posts that I want to experience solo play…yet I still have apprehension…I guess like JK said below that I should face the fear to really figure it out.

            • G, we eventually got around to opening up our marriage and while I was cool with us doing things together, I was very much against being open – but I felt that I had an obligation to hear her arguments for this and even as she presented them – over a week’s time – I wasn’t as much concerned about myself as I was about her. She had the resolve that she was going to do this with or without my ‘blessing’ or participation and, for me, it was a matter of which thing was better for our relationship: Forbid her to engage in this and she does it anyway, or agree that we can do this and then set the conditions in this.

              It was a difficult decision but a simple one because it’s better the devil you know than the one you don’t. So we went open… but we still played together with others and the transition wasn’t an easy one for either of us but eventually, we got over the rough spots and because our love for each other was very strong – as was our relationship – we made it work. It was both a learning and growing experience for both of us; we had a rule that said whenever one of us came home from a solo experience, we had to sit down with each other and share it openly and without deception which we both found was rather damned erotic and led to some very heated sex between us.

              Being this way wasn’t without its problems – she would be pissed with me because my solo experiences were way better than hers (but I told her this would be the case) but she eventually stopped fussing about that and more so when I would simply say, “Well, if this makes you angry, we can call the whole thing off – makes no difference to me.” She eventually learned, through our conversations – and we talked a great deal more than ever before – to adjust her thinking to match mine: Think us, not me.

              It proved to be better for the relationship because we also learned that just because we could do it didn’t mean we had to – a very important lesson. It also removed the conditional stuff that just being swingers had in place, not that we had many of them, mind you, but when you reach that tipping point where just being able to play isn’t enough – and not because it isn’t fun or anything like that – in retrospect, we saw that the change in our relationship had to happen in order for us to continue being happy together and, very, very important, that we continue to grow as individuals. By going this route, we eliminated that tallying thing because it wasn’t about who was getting more or less than the other anymore – it was about doing whatever we wanted to do but with the main focus being on making our relationship the best it could be.

              It was an adventure. It eventually led to us to having a poly relationship – again, we got to a point where we outgrew being open and this was the next evolution for us even though at the time it happened, neither of us had any idea of what polyamory was until, of course, I eventually figured out what it was we were now into. And if you think swinging and being open is an education, whew, oh, boy, neither of these things come close to being poly.

              By being open and able to do our own thing as well as still doing things together, we learned compersion – again, a word I didn’t know existed until last year or so – but I know it made me happy to see her happy in this; it solidified our relationship in ways that we could have ever imagined and led to experiences and growth that’s pretty much unheard of.

              And, no, none of this was responsible for us deciding to end 32 years of marriage – that was something totally unrelated.

            • You knew I had to wonder if that played into it!

              Thank you so much for sharing your story, wow. Hot and exciting to talk to someone who has gone through this.

            • You shared, I share – all good. G, the one thing I know I learned from all of this was to not be afraid and trust in the strength of love and the relationship. My current lady and I are swingers… but if she wanted to go do someone outside of that, I would and could tell her to go ahead and have fun because I just have no fears over what could happen.

              It’s a really special place to be but not so easy to get there.

  4. Whether you’re being a selfish bitch depends on the rest of your relationship. If everything is fine then he should be okay that you don’t want a FMF. But if you keep seeking MFM experiences and deny him a FMF when you know he wants it then… you need to address that. Similarly if you want to fuck other guys (not a 3way) at swing events but don’t want him to fuck other women, then… you need to address that.
    Talk it out with him, and just state flatly “I actually don’t want you fucking other women, I don’t like how it makes me feel”. See how he reacts and what his response is.
    My wife gets very competitive when other women express any interest in me. THAT is when she will get all flirty and then fuck my brains out when we get home. Well, that’s how it used to be – now she just gets flirty/possessive (marking her territory, ladies!) and when get home… well, we’re home now and I’m not going to fuck you in case you think of her.
    Even in death she has me covered: her assets/wealth (she came into a windfall last year) is held in trust for our daughter. I’m allowed to live in the house and raise her and use the money for that BUT if I meet someone else and start a new relationship I will have to move out and I’m on my own financially. I asked her of she was serious about denying me any future happiness with anyone else if (god forbid) she dies, and she said “why should I pay for your new girlfriend?”
    So, are you as bad as that? If not, relax.
    (PS – to clarify: when I say ‘you need to address that’ above, I really mean ‘you’re being selfish’. If you are then own it. Like my wife does).

    • Yeah, now I feel kind of lame posting this because my husband gets it, and accepts it, and doesn’t complain. In fact, he’s probably going to ask my why I even posted this, as we had a guest post coming first… Anyway… Here are the limits of sorts:
      1) He can be with another woman while I’m in the same room, preferably with another man.
      2) I would do a FMF, which is what he really wants most, but I’m not lusting after that idea.
      3) NOT cool with him going to her house, her coming here when I am not here, any sort of meeting at a bar and dancing and talking all night, any sort of chatting with a woman who is local also…

      The problem is finding that unicorn for that FMF is tough, the best way is to meet another couple, but the way things have been going I seem to be making excuses or being turned off by the other couples.

      But he’s all good with it. Our relationship is solid. I had that day where I felt like I needed to speak my mind, so I posted about My Truths, then I figured I had to actually follow up with something here even though hubby and I have talked this stuff over already.

      • Ah well, that sounds positive then. Good like finding the unicorn! xo

        >

        • Thank you Nero! Good luck to you too!
          Hey I had a dream last night, and there was a character that was you, even though I have no idea what you look like I knew it was you in my dream. Not sexual, but more like, “omg I’m finally meeting you and I can’t believe our rooms are so near the spa.”

          • Well now that we’ve met maybe tonight’s dream will be a little more sexual – it would be a shame to waste rooms this close! 😉 xo

            >

  5. I appreciate your honesty. As full-swap swingers, we have found it EXCEEDINGLY hard to find a couple that Rick and I are both attracted to. It’s happened like twice in 4.5 years. It’s been slightly less hard to find the unicorn for FMF situations, but it’s happened several times, that I’ve written about on my blog. Swinging is actually harder than what most people think. LOL!!!

    #3 is fairly common among swinging women; you’re definitely not alone there.

    Good luck!

    • Thank you so much Shalynne. It really is hard to find. Do you ever feel guilty if you are the one that doesn’t like him and it prevents your husband from being with her? Or do you still arrange something so that your husband gets her?

      • What usually happens is that I am attracted to the man, but he is not attracted to the woman. I will usually defer to him, as I don’t want either one of us taking one for the team. I even wrote about it on my own blog. We’ve gotten to the point where we are becoming more comfortable with the idea of playing separately from time to time. You may eventually get there too.

  6. You know what…at the end of the day, everything in life is a negotiation of sorts.. Bottom line, if you’re not comfortable, to me, that is the end of story. Sounds like your husband feels the same. Don’t beat yourself up about it.

    • I really need to stop worrying, and trying to make a point, you are right that I’m beating myself up for it– because he is great about it– I just want to go above and beyond I guess.

  7. You’re a good girl G, don’t beat yourself up too much… do you and D have a cut off time for all of this? I mean is there a point where you both sit back and say ‘we tried and it didn’t work or is not going to work’ ???

    • Good question about the cut off time. I’m not sure exactly but in the past D has decided that we won’t see any other men until we see some women, or a woman. Even though it is usually him initiating the threesomes with the guys, I still would miss it if it was gone. I just saw it evolving in some way, it is weird…I guess I hoped for something like you have, even though it isn’t really that possible having young children.
      Why do I keep trying to beat myself up? Is there a reason I have to fight to be content?

  8. How I wish we’d met and had that glass of wine, or coffee or whatever! We have a lot in common, you and I. Too much to try and write about here.

    Sigh. I understand this. I KNOW this. I like to think I’ve worked my way through it, but since the Guys haven’t met anybody to try it out with lately, I can’t say that is definitively the truth. There is part of me (the masochist?) that wants to try it, to push that edge that used to cut me so sharply, to see if it still cuts…

    Anyway. Damn. I’m sorry we missed getting together. I think we’d have had a great time and talked all night. Or something.

    You ARE okay though. This stuff isn’t easy. Give yourself time, and room.

    • I really hope that we get a chance to meet in the future. I feel like we would have had the best girls’ night ever. I pictured comfy couch, wine, jammies, lots of laughing and talking all night, and yes, maybe something else. We do have a lot in common, because I feel you on wanting to find out how much that cut really does hurt, but equally feeling the need to run from that edge.
      I’m glad you say it isn’t easy because I suppose there is a bit of desensitization as I’ve been reading erotica for a while and I just can’t see a vanilla relationship being an option anymore, but I also find swinging really challenging to navigate.

  9. Please know that everything I say is not from the experience of having brought another person or couple into my marital bed, but comes from questions and/or concerns that have come up as we discuss taking the next step into this direction.

    I don’t think your uneasy feelings about your husband being with another woman are unfounded at all. I’m guessing just from what I’ve read throughout the months, but based more on my own feelings that it’s not because you don’t want him to enjoy the experience of being with another woman but it has more to do with you don’t want another woman becoming attached to your husband.

    Fact is a lot of women are crazy, needy bitches who when they see a good thing try and go after it with a vengeance. Now I consider myself extraordinarily lucky that even though B and I want to play with others, I know that deep down he only has eyes for me and vice verse. Of course we want to make sure that there is a mutual attraction with other people, I want to be turned on by their mind and body, I want the connection. I want the flirting with each other and having fun. But from my experience so far, women take a man flirting with them, giving them compliments and showing interest in them the wrong way. They start interpreting those actions as he wants something “more” out of the relationship.

    Maybe I am naive in my thought process on this, but I just don’t see the same behavior in men. I’m not worried about them trying to steal me away or misinterpreting my flirting, curiosity in their interests or ego stroking as anything more than that. Plus, I know myself well enough to know that it wouldn’t work anyway.

    So even though I’d love to have a girlfriend we could each play with, whether it be her and him, me and her or all of us together I just don’t count on it because of the above. That being said, I don’t count it out either. If its meant to be, it’ll be. In the meantime we will focus on couples as we feel the probability of attachment is less.

    • EXACTLY!!! Ding Ding!! I’m so glad you said it so eloquently. I prepared another post where I tried to make this statement but you did it way better.

      It is confusing though, huh? I guess best case for us is another couple that is super secure and happy, developing friendships and then more. But when we’ve had the chance at that, I still shy away from getting to know him and get mad when hubby gets to know her better….sigh.

      • Well just so you know my husband doesn’t necessarily agree with me on my theory that men wouldn’t also fall hard and eventually want more, he just thinks they’re not as likely to go all crazy about it. Also, I can understand the frustrations in lack of getting to know someone vs. your husband. I tend to be the more adventurous and outgoing one in the relationship, where as he likes to sit back, observe and then dive in. So this can easily turn people away, because it’s perceived as only one of us having interest.

        This of course is where my mind then starts thinking it would just be easier to have a poly type of arrangement and who knows maybe someday we will evolve to that. Now you’re probably thinking what? I thought she didn’t want another woman becoming attached to her husband. And yes, this is still true but only in the sense that I don’t want her thinking that she will be able to come in and become the priority, that he would ever leave me for her or that they would someday be making a home together.

        I know without any doubt it’s possible to love more than one person and nothing about that bothers me. I think if someone can have a heart big enough to give that much love than it’s a beautiful thing. It just comes down to the other person has to realize and know that in the end I am my husband’s wife period. He takes precedence; he is my priority and will always come first and vice verse. I just don’t think many people think the same way I do and so yeah, it’s confusing. LOL

  10. G, Congratulations on you and your hubby getting through this. I would imagine you being as honest and upfront with your friend as you are here. That’s all you can do. It has to be weird to go through. If I was trying to make this happen for a guy and I feel that I am not into women as you have described before, I might hire another woman from far away – deal done, and then she’s gone.

    • I sure wish I was as honest and upfront as I am here…I guess I am to a degree, because I did ask her about the sex with Derek thing and we talked a lot about sex a lot. My issue with her, came down to my inability to say no. From simple things like, whether she can come over and hang out (even if it seemed like a bad time I felt bad refusing, over time I felt resentful instead of empowered to be more honest about when I feel good dropping things to hang out) to letting her help out with things I didn’t need help with.
      She’s just made me realize how immature I am when it comes to friends/friendships/relationships.

      • You know what the issue is then and that’s big. Knowing and facing it are how you grow, no? Sure it’s a pain in the ass but sometimes that’s just how it goes. It’s no fun at all learning where my weaknesses are and it’s even harder to strengthen the muscles to not be as weak – if that’s what I really want. What’s the alternative though? I’d wish I could stay blind to some of my weaknesses!

        • Something I forgot – Growth and experimenting is fine as anyone will say but if you really aren’t into it – Don’t do it. Your feelings are valid in that sense too. It’s just my opinion. Trust your gut. xo, J

          • But if today D was to tell me that he isn’t into swinging anymore it would be sort of hard to handle. I feel bad for him, arg…I just need to try it and get over it.

            • Maybe you just haven’t met the right woman yet and you haven’t ruled it out for your husband. He sounds like he won’t mind waiting for you to find someone you feel comfortable with. If you’re open about your doubts right off the bat, the other woman shouldn’t be bothered if you change your mind. Well, I wouldn’t be. We women are just complex beings, no? XOXO

        • That is the easier way, to stay blind, for sure. But hard work does bring growth and something to be proud of…easier said than done.

    • Btw, great idea on the escort, or just going to a different city and letting him have his fun. And I’m not in the mode of thinking about women sexually, but I don’t have a problem being with one in a sexual way after things get started (is that “not into women” I just wanted to clarify in case I offended anyone I’ve flirted with here)

  11. No matter what you might think about how you are, until you experience it firsthand, it’s about how you THINK you are. Everything can change in an instant, and all talk of compersion and jealousy and courage and love changes, when you’re actually in the situation. Unintended, unexpected emotions fly up and shock you, that it’s coming from you, boiling up inside of you. The point is to go with what you feel is right, and be willing to change on the fly if it stops feeling right. Don’t forget though, to face your fears, realize the true why, then adjust if you think you can.

    • Oh wow, truly a great point and such wonderful advice as usual. Thank you so much! This apprehension and pondering won’t go away until we actually try it, or we give up on it. I don’t want to give up so I need to keep rolling it around my head.

  12. I was reading the last comment that hit my mailbox and saw the dreaded “taking one for the team,” something that I learned not to be all that concerned about. One, I’m about to have sex – who can’t get hyped up and self-motivated to do this? I learned that you can, indeed, be fooled by what your eyes are seeing; I’ve had some damned good sex with women who didn’t look like they had a clue about how to get laid so for me in that “taking one for the team” situation, my mind would be like, “Okay, let’s see how much fun we can have with her!”

    My logic suggested to me that even if she didn’t turn out to be as much fun as she could have been, um, I still get to screw my wife silly, meaning I get to have sex more than once! Yay!

    When my now fiancee and I got into swinging (and because she was hyped to do it) and we talked about taking one for the team, I told her straight up that she would never have to worry about making me feel like that because I know I don’t have to really be all that attracted to the other woman or anything like that in order to have sex with her – and there’s no such thing as half-assing it as far as I’m concerned; you just learn at some point how to make your own fun when it doesn’t appear to be there… at first; if nothing else, I’m persistent…

    She didn’t believe me – I expected that – and I told her what I said here: I’m about to have sex and if I can’t get myself motivated to kick girlfriend into the next zip code, check my ID then check for a pulse. She asked, “Well, what if she doesn’t satisfy you?” I laughed and told her I can be quite satisfying just going down on her – everything else is gravy and, besides, I get to go home with you and do it all over again so for me, it’s a win/win.

    I’d never ask her to take one, not that she would – when she’s making her decision to say yes or no, she already knows that for me, taking one for the team doesn’t exist – it doesn’t make sense for it to exist and more so since we’re supposed to be doing this for her benefit as much as mine – and we’re doing it for us so I’ll be damned if I’m going to do anything that will put a crimp in that!

    If we learn that the other woman might not be feeling me, we discover this before any clothes come off and the deal’s taken off the table. But if it’s on, damn it, it’s gonna be on… because it’s sex – wild, unadulterated, let’s kick holes in all of the walls and break the bed sex. And I STILL get to do my baby regardless. Win/win.

    But I know this is something a lot of swingers worry about and even ask how they can avoid this most dreaded situation and, at least in my mind, it’s really a question of which is the more important thing: The act or the person you’re gonna be doing it with? Yeah, I know, the usual answer is, “I gotta feel some attraction or chemistry…” and that’s fine… I guess; to me, any attraction/chemistry just makes the sex even better. I know I’m pretty much alone in this particular school of thought but I thought I’d toss my fifty-five cents in on the “taking one for the team” topic.

    I took one for the team once, back when I was married and early on in our playing. I wasn’t mad at my wife – I was mad with myself because I didn’t have what it took to get myself excited to have sex and that was because I was too busy looking at the cover instead of focusing on the book itself and vowed to myself to never make that mistake ever again; it not only killed the whole vibe and sent the other couple home, but it hung over our relationship like a wet, moldy blanket.

    • Good stuff, K daddy

      >

    • Your last paragraph just shows your maturity level. At this point in my life, I’d rather not try to become attracted to become aroused by another person, because I can either not have sex or have sex alone or sex with my hubby.
      I don’t see why I would make an effort to fuck a stranger who didn’t float my boat.

  13. Pingback: My Truths #2 | filled and fooled

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